tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post1086356475835681231..comments2024-02-13T03:59:13.635+00:00Comments on Eat Electric Death: Carbonsplifferous [Am]Slimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02020308502156946280noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-80558167705522307582007-06-01T20:17:00.000+01:002007-06-01T20:17:00.000+01:00Lurks, I think you're probably right. The trouble ...Lurks, I think you're probably right. The trouble with my approach is that it depends on the consciousness raising efforts of the reduction lobby being successful across the board. Which is by no means a forgone conclusion.<br>Maybe Am's approach is right? I just can't help feeling somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of buying the right to produce more of the very thing that is causing the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-90508093030244048872007-06-01T20:15:00.000+01:002007-06-01T20:15:00.000+01:00The one thing that everyone agrees here is that ca...The one thing that everyone agrees here is that carbon reduction is an imperative in itself. <br>I'll add then that an offset is something completely different but important.<br>I had already thought that 'offsetting' has a distinct strength and inherent weakness in it. The strength is the suggestion that you need to offset yourself in full i.e. don't just give a tenner to famine relief Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-49320691136972271992007-06-01T20:12:00.000+01:002007-06-01T20:12:00.000+01:00I'm more than capable of understanding the logic b...I'm more than capable of understanding the logic behind a simple summation dear boy. You decry my approach as being sociological, but how else is one to approach something that is so... sociological? I agree entirely that we could all drive around in fast cars and live in large houses <i>if</i> we offset accordingly. Of course we could, this makes perfect sense. But my point is that there is a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-17656339245876553192007-06-01T20:05:00.000+01:002007-06-01T20:05:00.000+01:00I certainly appreciate where Dave is coming from b...I certainly appreciate where Dave is coming from but I don't believe you've got a straight up choice between those with money doing more to reduce their carbon footprint or carbon offset schemes. I think it's likely they'll just carry on with business as usual or they'll carry on with business as usual with a carbon offset scheme. Lesser of two evils?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-15936301982373261742007-06-01T20:01:00.000+01:002007-06-01T20:01:00.000+01:00Dave you've summed up the social unpleasantness of...Dave you've summed up the social unpleasantness of the situation - that a Tim-nice-but-dim could be an avid consumarist and utterly coincidentally pick an efficient offset without a decent motivation in his miniscule number of neurons and actually be hugely less carbon impacting than you.<br>Unfortunately it's totally true.<br>Your approach is socialogical. That you haven't read the paper is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-9171747059609901612007-06-01T19:51:00.000+01:002007-06-01T19:51:00.000+01:00As it happens, because our house was built by a gu...As it happens, because our house was built by a guy who was interested in energy efficiency only 13 years ago, our lagging and insulation is huge in this house and certainly miles on from your average UK house. All walls have it built in as an integral part of the wall construction and the roof / loft spsce stuff is also as deep as you can possibly imagine. No credit to us here but to Keith whoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-44231572912344874232007-06-01T19:49:00.000+01:002007-06-01T19:49:00.000+01:00I had a think about this. Then had a think about t...I had a think about this. Then had a think about this some more. And the conclusion I came to was the my initial knee-jerk reaction was bang on the money. This is <b>rotten</b>.<br>Fair play to Am for taking measures to reduce his emissions, as well as offsetting the remaining deficit, but the very notion of creating a market for carbon forgiveness seems to me to be deeply dangerous.<br>Even in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-41221527954230975632007-06-01T17:15:00.000+01:002007-06-01T17:15:00.000+01:00Actually the whole thing about windows is interest...Actually the whole thing about windows is interesting. We're kind of lead to believe that windows are bad and ought to be firmly double insulated. Yet in most homes loft and cavity wall insulation have far more of an effect and are a lot cheaper - you can basically order massive rolls of it and do it yourself for piss all. In fact I must do this, apparently it ought to be done to a depth of 30cm Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-32496902840365092732007-06-01T17:09:00.000+01:002007-06-01T17:09:00.000+01:00insulating that huge fucking house properly would ...insulating that huge fucking house properly would be a start now wouldnt it, heat must be leaking like a bitch to that garage, and to the crawlspace and roof. windows are crap, ninja 3 glass windows atleast, and some passive waterheating through hoses under the roof and under that HUGE lawn (can even get transparent rooftiles for added efficiency). and get some solarpanels.goverment here had a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-61453903915609795522007-06-01T16:46:00.000+01:002007-06-01T16:46:00.000+01:00What I would like to see, before any invests in an...What I would like to see, before any invests in anything like this, is a report card of their working on how they claim to offset x amount of CO2. This whole thing is a bit of a bugbear of mine as it is, there's all sorts of random figures quoted for all sorts of things but you can never see the working to see what kind of assumptions they've madeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-27786171331740994202007-06-01T16:37:00.000+01:002007-06-01T16:37:00.000+01:00One thing that I should probably add that's quite ...One thing that I should probably add that's quite important: As mentioned above, the concept of scamming or lack of verification is a serious concern and with the multi-billion carbon trading industry there for the taking by serious organised criminals.However I learned from the report (it'll be 15 minutes out of your life to read it with a cup of coffee - give it a go) which I don't think is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-40854886019323385462007-06-01T15:11:00.000+01:002007-06-01T15:11:00.000+01:00Now I'm the guy that gave G-man the original stick...Now I'm the guy that gave G-man the original stick for his pretty high carbon footprint. That said, I think you're being pretty unfair on what he's saying. He's not saying carbon offsetting is the be all and end all, he's also raised the point that it's questionable as to how good these things are without independent verification and has linked some research on the subject. Great, I've wanted to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-9509999837337759742007-06-01T15:09:00.000+01:002007-06-01T15:09:00.000+01:00Of course there's something distasteful and unpala...Of course there's something distasteful and unpalatable about the monied classes paying for indulgences if you choose to take it like that. But it relies firstly on a large 'if' which isn't necessarily the case at all - you can't assume that because people are offsetting that they aren't also taking action. As we both agree you have to take action as well to be really good at this. <br>That's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-11196986981968066442007-06-01T14:58:00.000+01:002007-06-01T14:58:00.000+01:00Am, it still seems half arsed to me. I mostly see ...Am, it still seems half arsed to me. I mostly see carbon offsetting as a conscience clearing move just as one jets off to barbados for three weeks. If you can afford the offset, great, do that and go on holiday to the lake district instead. I think the scale of change that's required hasn't sunk in, and offsetting while valuable and important, particularly for essential activities, can distract Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-67886896392322991582007-06-01T14:51:00.000+01:002007-06-01T14:51:00.000+01:00Nice one am, but plugging the ozone hole with fift...Nice one am, but plugging the ozone hole with fiftys...would all those metal strips not keep the heat in the atmosphere?<br>G man is accurate, if in doubt thrown £1,000's at the problem ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-76923455564808716092007-06-01T14:31:00.000+01:002007-06-01T14:31:00.000+01:00Well that's the general objection that gets thrown...Well that's the general objection that gets thrown around in the telegraph or where-ever but I did try to be quite clear that this is a i) change in approach - switching transport / changing car etc PLUS ii) an offset commitment - both are essential.<br>Estimates vary but an average UK person is considered to output about 9 tonnes of CO2 a year (source: Lib Dems paper for Green Switch tax Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7961660238450693245.post-69616450805086449862007-06-01T14:07:00.000+01:002007-06-01T14:07:00.000+01:009/10 for effort am but I can't help but think you'...9/10 for effort am but I can't help but think you're entirely missing the point and are deluding yourself. Chucking someone a pony every month and carrying on with your life as a ravenous consumer really isn't what's needed to solve this problem. The planet needs a radical change in lifestyle to make a difference, and a sticker of a tree in your beemer window isn't going to cut it. <br>It's theseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com