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Sunday, 18 April 2004

Modern Day Perpetual Motion Scam [lurks]


I picked up on a strange story on Slashdot about how this Japanese inventor named Kohei Minato had apparently created a new electric motor which is 80% more efficient than current electric motors. This is big deal because electric motors account for around half the consumption of our total electricity output. I was especially interested in this because when I was in university, I helped on the project to construct an electric-powered solar car for the World Solar Challenge. We did a lot of hard core research into how to make electric motors more efficient so I'd say I'm pretty well versed on the theory even though my bit of that project was the telemetry comms rather than the motor design.

This motor right, 80% more efficient? Not possible, says I. Motors now are already in the 80%+ efficiency range and the motors we were making by hand in University were over 90% efficient so you don't have that margin to improve before you get into the realms of fantasy. Yet I read the original story with a great deal of interest. Allow me to paraphrase some bits out of the article which explains how this new motor works;



Nobue explains to us that this and all the other devices only use electrical power for the two electromagnetic stators at either side of each rotor, which are used to kick the rotor past its lockup point then on to the next arc of magnets. Apparently the angle and spacing of the magnets is such that once the rotor is moving, repulsion between the stators and the rotor poles keeps the rotor moving smoothly in a counterclockwise direction. Either way, it's impressive.

Well um, that's actually how a lot of motors work but let's not get bogged down in that just yet...



Next we move to a unit with its motor connected to a generator. What we see is striking. The meters showed an input to the stator electromagnets of approximately 1.8 volts and 150mA input, and from the generator, 9.144 volts and 192mA output. 1.8 x 0.15 x 2 = 540mW input and 9.144 x 0.192 = 1.755W out.

You don't need to know what that means, I include it here because when I read this report this sent up my first alarm bells. These guys are using electrical multimeters to measure power. You can't do that because on complex power consumption, a meter approximating RMS power from an electrical level just wont cut the mustard. It's a kind of schoolboy error but since this jap bloke freely admits that he has no formal training, I was prepared to read on.

But then what started off as an interesting story, then veered off into the realms of the bizarre as the inventor essentially claims that the devices outputs more power than is input - so that's where we're getting that 80% figure from I guess. What we have here is your age old perpetual motion scam. The question must be, is it a blatant fake or has the guy just fucked up and managed to convince some poor saps to go along with it?



Minato assures us that he hasn't transcended the laws of physics. The force supplying the unexplained extra power out is generated by the magnetic strength of the permanent magnets embedded in the rotor. 'I'm simply harnessing one of the four fundamental forces of nature,' he says.

Ahh so he's miraculously obtaining extra power from the magnetism of the permanent magnets. Kind of amazing that no one had thought of the infinite power generating ability of permanent magnets before eh? Quick, lock up your fridge magnets - they're the next Saudi oil wells!

The piece is then full of feel-good fluff about how the manufacture of these miraculous motors will occur in Japan and will serve to regenerate industry in the 'inner north of Tokyo -- which is becoming a regional rust belt' apparently. But surely no one is falling for this right? I guess the local feel-good scam worked well enough for a Japanese investor;



...the Osaka banker stands up after the lecture and announces that before he goes, he will commit 100 million to the investment pool.

Oh dear. It seems a good dose of pseudo-science has the same ability to con investors in Japan out of their money as the West in the great dot com mass hysteria. My favorite bit though, the author of the report (a yank) seems to believe off the back of having seen this - he's now qualified to comment on the prospects for the company.



Mention of Over Unity devices in many scientific circles will draw icy skepticism. [No shit?] But if you can accept the idea that Minato's device is able to create motion and torque through its unique, sustainable permanent magnet propulsion system, then it makes sense that he is able to get more out of the unit than he puts in in terms of electrical power.

Yes, it all makes sense! All you need to accept is that you're a complete and utter fucking moron! There's a bunch of vids on that site. I enjoyed how the author of the report tried to read off the current from a meter and seemingly couldn't work out if 0.04A was 400 or 40 milliamps but hey it makes sense right? There's a heck of a lot of other bandying around figures like 16W driving a 35Kg load which indicate that the author has about as much grasp of science as Homer Simpson.

This other chap picked up on the dodgy power measuring in evidence in the videos but then dishes out some praise on the physical design of the motor;



It's still a super neat idea though - which seems to boil down to 'drive motors from the outside using aligned permanent magnets and momentary pulses from the stator' instead of the traditional 'sick the stator in the middle' idea.

Yeah but... that's really really not a new idea. I have a motor like that on my CPU cooler for Christ's sake. I can't tell if the original guy is a scam merchant or just a blithering idiot or if the author of the report is in on it too. I mean surely no one would try on a classical perpetual motion scam based on the mysterious power of magnets right? Then again... /me checks inbox for another 419 scam...

The moral of the story is that a bit of pseudo science technobabble is still a potent tool to get people seeing the dollar signs and checking their brain out at the door.

On a positive note, there are promising improvements on the cards concerning electrical motors but these are generally limited to improving the power density and power to weight ratio - an important goal as electrical motors become more wide spread in electric vehicles. One firm commercializing research in this area is Raser Technologies with their Symetron electrical motors. These are basically just modifications of electro-magnet positions and shaped driving currents to essentially existing motor designs which serve to generate more work without frying the windings from hysteresis induction. They recently demonstrated a compact 500HP motor driving a bus. Very cool.

51 comments:


  1. What is it with people that the bigger the scam the more believable it is. Or in fact not even the scam but the claimed benefit put forward by the misguided or deluded. Cold Fission? Let's stick it on the front page! Pepetual Energy motors? Where's me cheque book and myhundred mil guarantee card! Scientology? I believe and will pay tens of thousands of dollars to find out what the sci-fi writer said next!

    It's time for this clan to move on. It is pretty clear we need to set up our own techno-religion and charge millions of people a hundred quid to join in. I've got Slim for God, Lurks for the ecstacy of the evangelist, Lotta for the pennitent priest who comes good having sinned heavily with our female novitiates and Lesbub as our Ecstatic.

    You read it here first. Welcome to the Church of Electric Death.

    His Holiness Amnesia the First, Pop of the material and majestic.

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  2. Not a bad plan, some years ago we made a start. :-)

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  3. 'The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of a nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies, but would be ashamed to tell big lies.' - Adolf Hitler

    Good ol' perpetual motion :)

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  4. So let me get this; You are likening the purpose and scale of ambition of the Church of Electric Death and in fact His Holiness Pop Amnesia Da First, Earthly Potent of Beer, Defender of The Erbal Flamin Bush, Preserver of Faith, Sharon and Thrisha to the global domineering ambitions (but not the fucktard stuff) of Adolf Hitler??

    Bah we're so see-through.

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  5. JohnAustenBrown18 April 2004 at 22:37


    Your remarks would be more convincing if written in conjunction with a known authority on magnetic motor design and incuding less shit.My work is in personal aircraft, see www.hoverplanes.org and check the link to Quasiturbine and UK patent. A super efficient electric motor would revolutionize personal aircraft performance.Can you recommend an available high efficiency motor, I need four of them at a cut price for prototyping (even used).Personally I think you are close to the mark.john.brown.cgocable.ca

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  6. Don't actually understand what this bloke's talking about. Probably the Christmas turkey in my brain.

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  7. JohnAustenBrown18 April 2004 at 22:37


    AM check my site. You will see that the Minato possibiliies could be enormous, if they work, and particularly for aircraft.Note that the book is not closed, Minato may be using a real breakthrough system even if he cannot explain it.Also some new fuel cells may give electric aircraft an equivalent boost.CORRECTION My email address is john.brown@cgocable.ca

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  8. Hey, if you're the type of guy that just wants to believe in some pseudoscience promises of an amazingly efficient new motor then I can't really convince you otherwise, you've got religion. My interest in this subject stemmed from designing and building electric motors for a University entry in the world solar challenge as outlayed here.

    Essentially I know a thing or two about electric motors and the point of this blog was to illustrate that this chap hasn't proven anything, can't tell you how it works and in fact is just claiming (quite some time ago now too) that he's invented the next big thing. If there was something to it, a lot of people would be scrambling into action. So you see the burden isn't on me to prove they work. The burden is on Minato to prove his system works. If you're leaning towards believing the claims he's making then you probably need a bit of a physics refresher too. Modern electric motors are already in the high 90%s.

    You don't want more efficient motors for your flying car thing (hehe), what you want is lighter motors. That's actually the Minato benefit which you might, playing devil's advocate here, be able to reap but as I said - he didn't invent it, rim driven motors are in common use already. The brushless DC electric motor with super permanent magnet rotor isn't exactly a new concept, 12 years ago we built just such a motor in the solar cars in the world solar challenge.

    The reason, despite the lighter weight and high efficiency, that they aren't used in aircraft is because they have a higher cross section area which isn't condusive to good aerodynamic design. Simply put, your engine pods would be very fat, not a great thing to place behind your fan blades unless you place the permanent on the edges of the blades and have very large hollow pods. Interesting idea but this would make the engineering problems of gas turbines look pretty small in terms of balance tollerance, I should think.

    Anyhow, it strikes me electric motors are by far and away not your limiting factor here. It's where you get all that electricity from. Electric motors are actually very good at what they do, the problem with electric motors is that they use electricity and this is a pretty inconvienient and not terribly easy to generate form of energy. Fuel cells? Doubt it, since you'll either need to use half your cargo capacity for liquified hydrogen or insanely expensive catalysers to reform something like methanol. The energy density of the latter is acceptable but you'd probably find you could either use a turbine to generate power or some form of internal combustion engine to drive the rotors which would be more efficient for the weight.

    Power, here, is the problem. Not electric motors. Perhaps when you've demonstrated your solution to that particular problem, you might be more successful with funding.

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  9. New naked nick. Thanks for reply, I have fundng for the prototype, just trying to get more.Please bash Tom Bearden for me at his interesting page at www.cheniere.org/misc/kawai.htm where he describes the japanese mafia stopping progress on overunity motors ??For prototype testing with five minute flights, quite useful for translation etc. a regular electric motor is fine and cheaper. For a production Minato or Kawai type I was thinking of a series in line.Happy new year to all.

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  10. Doesn't seem like a worthwhile excersize to look in to it I'm afraid. 'Over unity' is another way of saying perpetual motion engine. It's a scam, a hoax, a conjurer's trick. It'd be nice but sadly we have these pesky laws of physics. If it worked, we'd make really big ones and hook them up to generators to siphon off power and light our cities. Personally I think investigating the Force to solve transportation problems is a better idea. One genetically cloaned yoda sat on the back of a surf board - all our commuter woes would be gone!

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  11. According to Professor Myron Wyn Evans aias.us it is you who may have religion, electric death may be near. Do you agree with Evans O(3) theory of electrodynamics which could allow overunity ? I tried to correct the UAL in a previous message (a hyphen got inserted)if possible would you correct for me. Also I would like to have my new nick on all my messages for consistency if it is allowed.

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  12. Its all very nice and stuff, but where does maintenance and wear & tear come into the equation? Or do these sparklyfangly machines never break a spring, or burst a seal?

    Seal Bursting is apparantly the hottest entertainment ticket in Iceland right now, much to the concern of the commie pinkos.

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  13. Look, I'm getting tired of this. All you're doing is running around looking for people with a Dr in front of their name claiming you can get energy for free. It doesn't bloody work. If you insist, here's the refutation for this particular crackpot. With all due respect but it is far more productive to go looking for the science behind solutions which will help your goal rather than chasing things that no reputable scientist believes, for good reason.

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  14. And no, I can't be bothered to edit your nicks either.

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  15. What do you know about Raser? Is there technology real as far as you know? ]

    Any chance this is a scam company as well?

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  16. I think we stopped caring at least last calendar year

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  17. Hey if Kohei Minato motor doesnâÂ�Â�t work why it that he has a US patent. According to the US patent Office, to clam a perpetual device such as his, you must provide a WORKING model. Well?

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  18. Well, for a start, the motor design itself works fine and that's easy to get a patent for. The patent system does not hold patents to performance that they claim for them, just the mechanism.

    Now the only hint ever that it's a perpetual motion scam is from when Minato makes crack-fuelled claims about how it generates more work than the electrical energy put into it. Every demonstration so far has him trying to measure power in and work done. Of course if, as he claimed, it did 450W worth of work for 150W of power, you'd just wire it up to a generator with the power going back into the Minato motor. He's never done that, never demonstrated it, there's been no suggestion of this.

    Instead the only thing that the Minato motor is being used for, in terms of a product hitting the market, is a stupid little fan. One which is available to buy soon. So how about you nip out and buy one and hook it up to a generator and power your house with it!

    Free power! Scientists around the world have been so stupid to have missed this all along and pursue elaborate crazy multi-billion dollar projects like the International Fusion Research Collaboration. All when they could have just wired a bunch of Minato-generator perpetual motion modules to power our cities!

    Heh, you idiots want so very much to believe. If only you spent as much time paying attention in science class...

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  19. It really does amaze me how such a fundemental and simple physical law could be so musinderstood, it really does.

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  20. Spine - your comment while true relies for the severity of "shock" on the predicate that those misunderstanding are not complete and utter planks. In fact self-evidentially they are :) . So you shouldn't be shocked - they're just stupid :)

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  21. OrlowskiZygmunt20 July 2006 at 20:44

    Clean the air? It is possible. Clean water? It is possible too. Clean energy? It is possible as well. My idea is very difficult for understanding. It is not difficult for engineer - mechanic, who knows very good the Pascal's law and even-arm lever. Please open GOOgle and find metozor and next : index of metozor. Overthere is all about idea of main . example : www.nets.pl/~metozor/for_greenpeace.html or www.nets.pl/~metozor/energy_for_everybody.htm Everyone is able to build just the model of METOZ machine and test it. It is not a long shot.It is very easy. I can help. Please, have a look at www.nets.pl/~metozor/supplement.html Perhaps METOZ is some duplicating machine of a clean energy.SO YOU THINK WE HAVE AN ENERGY PROBLEM ??? NO, WE HAVE A POLITICAL PROBLEM !!!I am inventor and owner of Metoz machine invention. Everyone can take absolutely and legitimate the METOZ invention and build the Metoz machine. I can help only. I can not build METOZ. I am moneyless.

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  22. Weird, in my view, that inventors of machines that create perpetual free energy are all strapped for cash - you'd have thought the savings made on not having an electricity or gas bill alone would have gotten them a few quid a month eh?

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  23. OrlowskiZygmunt28 July 2006 at 20:41

    METOZ will be able to create A NEW KIND OF CLEAN ENERGY.METOZ IN THEORY IS THE PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE.My idea is very difficult for understanding. It is not difficult for engineer - mechanic, who knows very good the PascalâÂ�Â�s law and even-arm lever.THE CLEAN ENERGYThe entire world is looking for a source of clean energy. I have discovered a certain paradox basing on which a machine called METOZ can be built which by harnessing the gravitation of our EARTH can produce clean energy.The energy producing process is demonstrated in: www.nets.pl/~metozor/paradox.htmland can be very easily confirmed by an experiment.I am also in possession of a set of calculations which prove that the METOZ machine:1/ does not consume water / 39 A5-pictures /;2/ does not consume compressed air / 39 A5-pictures /;3/ produces energy to the outside = 4 839 kGm during a âÂ�Â�swing cycleâÂ�Â� /39 A5-pictures /;/ this is a âÂ�Â�weight cycleâÂ�Â� = the centre of gravity of the water in the METOZ machine sinks ( downward movement ) /4/ energy is produced / released to the outside = 44 600 kGm during the âÂ�Â�straightening cycleâÂ�Â� / 39 A5-pictures /./ this is a âÂ�Â�pressure cycleâÂ�Â� = the water mass centre of gravity inside the METOZ machine travels upwards (upward movement) /Features: 1/; 2/; 3/; 4/, of the machine owing to appropriate dimensions of individual elements of the lever mechanism.The METOZ has an even-arm lever of a 1.72 m length. The centre of gravity of the lever lies beneath the lever suspension point. The METOZ is equipped with two cylinders of a 1.6 m diameter each. Piston sidewalls do not contact directly with cylinder walls. The lever swing changes between 0 and 25 dgrFigures ( 3 x 13 x 4 = 156 ) present temporary, consecutive action situations at intervals of . The middle figure presents the machine and the side figures the position of the left and right cylinder and the mathematical description of these situations.In the past I have made two models, which confirmed the legitimacy of my theoretical assumptions concerning the METOZ machine. I have got photographs.I am looking for a person who would be interested in my invention. I can offer ample information. I look forward to hearing from you. www.nets.pl/~metozor/three_levers.html13 - 03 -2005 Gdynia, Polska Zygmunt OrÅÂ�owskiP.S. The term âÂ�Â�gravitational paradoxâÂ�Â� use in this description relates to the mathematical and physical description of the action of the METOZ-machine.THE EARTH GRAVITATION CAN BE THE SOURCE OF CLEAN ENERGY=====================================­========================ByOrlowski ZygmuntPoland 2005index html COMMENTS CONCERNING MACHINE âÂ�Â�METOZâÂ�Â�âÂ�Â�METOZâÂ�Â� is able to realize the cycle âÂ�Â�deflectionâÂ�Â� and the cycle âÂ�Â�straighening.âÂ�Â� Both cycles are in accordance with current physicâÂ�Â�s laws. âÂ�Â�METOZâÂ�Â� as machine can not work and hand over the energy because it would be inconsonant to the law of conservation of energy.I propose to execute the following intelectual process:we have found ourselves in the Europe of XVII century. We know the trigonometry in the scope of being occured for âÂ�Â�METOZ.âÂ�Â� We know what is the even-arm lever and moment of force too. Just appeears Mr. Baise Pascal / 1623âÂ�Â�1662/ and he publishes his hydraulics law with adequated experiment. All thinkers are sure that this law is correct and quite real. This time someone invents machine âÂ�Â�METOZâÂ�Â�. Now turn up the following questions:1/ why the implementation of the cycle âÂ�Â�deflectionâÂ�Â� is impossible?2/ why the implementation of the cycle âÂ�Â�straighteningâÂ�Â� is impossible?Both groups: opponents and followers of bulding âÂ�Â�METOZâÂ�Â� live in XVIIâÂ�Â�th century and they not know that:a/ the idea of an âÂ�Â�energyâÂ�Â� will be introduced into science scarlerly in mid. of XIX century,b/ the law of conservation of the energy will be exist scarlerly after 1847 y.QVESTION!!!WHAT KIND OF RATIONALY ENTERELY / ARGUMENT/ CAN BE DREAMED UP THE OPPONENTS OF BUILDING THE MACHINE âÂ�Â�METOZâÂ�Â� IN XVII CENTURY.========================================­======================Please open GOOgle and klick metozor and after : index of metozor At is site that explains technical details in easy to understand language. example : www.nets.pl/~metozor/for_greenpeace.html or www.nets.pl/~metozor/energy_for_everybody.htmlEveryone is able to build just the model of METOZ machine and test it. Please, have a look at www.nets.pl/~metozor/supplement.html Perhaps METOZ is some duplicating machine of a clean energy. I am inventor and owner of Metoz machine invention. Everyone can take absolutely and legitimate the METOZ invention and build the Metoz machine. I can help only. I can not build METOZ. I am moneyless. Thank you for your time and interest.

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  24. There are just too many fucking halfwit mentalists round here these days, spouting their crackpot, fucked up, looney toon ideas which have so little in common with reality that they may as well dance the monster mash while hammering rusty nails into their eyes for all the good it will do the world.

    But you know what really fucks me up? What really pisses me off to the extent that I feel the need to rage like a man of my stature has no right to feel? That these cocktards can't even type out their nonsense with decent paragraphing so ultimately, I can't even be bothered to get to the end of their lunacy to make an attempt to debunk it.

    AAAGGGHHH!

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  25. I just find it impressive that we're actually able to lure a bonafide perpetual motion loon out of the woodwork and post on our site! This, my friends, is the true power of the Internet. It allows us to connect to maleducated madmen from all walks of life.

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  26. It's not that impressive. Do a search on Google for any phrase in the comment he posted and you'll see that this clown spams his rhetoric into any vaguely relevent sounding blog or article.

    There's a reasonable debunking here.

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  27. PMNowaySuperCarbsYep8 August 2006 at 00:22


    If Al Gore were serious about reducing CO2 emmissions, he would simply have to convince the oil companies to let loose of one of the super carburetors that already exist. I know, you're saying..."another blathering conspiracy theorist". I would say the same thing if I hadn't seen one for myself. Not only do they exist, but there are dealers that have them and drive them and get 65-80 mpg easily. I saw one...They have pictures and an expert in mechanics look at this carburetor. Ford gave him 2 free trucks to get the accidently delivered vehicle back in their grasp. So forget about perpetual motion. Now that oil prices have doubled, the doubling of the gas mileage won't hurt them....hmmmmm..not a bad idea...double the price of gas so the new carburetors they are going to release soon won't hurt their bottom line. It's coming folks, just watch. Just watch out for the fuel additives as they are the culprits of high mileage in these devices.

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  28. What is this, a honeypot for the freakish and ignorant? The carburetor has not featured in a modern automobile since the invention and widespread adoption of something called fuel injection. A carb is a simple mechanical device for mixing fuel and air. There is no 'super' way to do it for the love of God, there is a precise optimum point between lean and rich, either side has obvious side effects visible to anyone who isn't a moron. Fuel injection does a better job by using a computer to work out the optimum mix and adds the additional feature of precise timing based on current conditions. The only place you're likely to find a caburetor these days is on a lawn mower. Although I wouldn't rule it out that it's still being used on absurdly low-tech American motor cars, I suppose.

    Let's get off the logistical lunacy for a moment there and consider what vehicle manufacturers have to gain in failing to use some miracle MPG-boosting technology. You're obviously an American since you don't understand the subject you're talking about, so let me just point out for you that anywhere in the world outside of the US-of-A, fuel is taxed heavily and it's quite expensive. People over here in the 'old countries' buy cars based, very often, on their fuel efficiency. So if Toyota or Ford wanted one up on the competition, they'd incorporate this miracle 'super carb' (is it powered by Aloe Vera per chance?) and sell more cars. Doh! Commercial pressures are very good at dictating this sort of thing so yes, buddy, you're another blathering conspiracy theorist although this one isn't even as well thought out as most.

    Is it possible to get remedial science classes in America?

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  29. Come on Lurks, stop being so blinkered.

    He's seen one! An expert in mechanics has looked at one for God's sake! Read his post, all you need to know is there!

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  30. In recent days, an Irish company - Steorn - has announced that it has developed a free, constant, clean energy generation mechanism. Now, what seperates this from the barely intelligable gibberings of our Polish friend above is that Steorn have a vaguely respectable website and have issued a challenge to scientists.Basically, they'll select twelve physicists volunteers, pay their expenses and ask them to do their worst at debunking their claim. Sounds fair, but what is their claim? It's is very difficult to tell, to be honest. Predictably, the website is short on details."The energy isn't being converted from any other source such as the energy within the magnet. It's literally created. Once the technology operates it provides a constant stream of clean energy."Doesn't tell us much. They also make the following claims: The technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%. The operation of the technology (i.e. the creation of energy) is not derived from the degradation of its component parts. There is no identifiable environmental source of the energy (as might be witnessed by a cooling of ambient air temperature).Sounds great eh? Personally, I'm skeptical. The laws of thermodynamics (which state, amongst other things, that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from other forms) are extremely well supported by experiment and theory. I really can't believe that someone would just stumble upon something that would overturn this. It stinks to me of a venture capital raising scam. To cap it all off, their unmoderated forum is full of the kind of kooks that all sites of this kind generate.Just imagine that I'm wrong though. If these chancers had somehow stumbled upon something that really did what they said. Or if it maybe converted energy from an effectively unlimited source (galactic magnetic field or something) and didn't violate any principles. What would such a thing mean for humanity? Maybe it's a seperate blog, because it strikes me as an interesting, if hypothetical, discussion.

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  31. Sounds like some form of pulsed electric motor. It probably can't live up to ridiculous over-unity claims, but it might have more efficiency than a regular electric motor under certain conditions. Say a magnet on a rotor arcs past a coil and for about 20% of the arc it's interaction is quite strong. So instead of constantly running current for the other weaker 80% of arc, you just pulse it within the 20% where the interaction is really good. Thus you're not wasting energy via resistance heating up coils of magnet wire under constant power. PEMs probably aren't in common use because they require some form of timing (making it more complicated) to work correctly, become less efficient with higher RPMs (less dwell time between pulses and above a certain RPM you may as well use a regular motor), and have a few other negative tradeoffs.

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  32. They're used pretty widely on high power motors where the efficiency gains due to losses from high currents end up being significant. Modern train motors would be the best example - the ones that make that whining sound. Generally speaking in these systems the pulses of the pulse-width modulator used for throttle control are synced to the RPM of the actual rotor and, for the reason you've described, at higher RPM the normal maximum width starting point is brought forward to compensate somewhat for hysteresis effect of the magnetic field. However this can compensate only slightly for the expected very large RPM range that you experience in things like trains so it's often additionally coupled with a mechanical mechanism rather like an automatic gearbox to keep motor RPM in a suitable range. The best example of a system like that would be the modern tube trains on the London underground. Overall that system means you can deliver a heck of a lot more torque at low RPM than a system designed to drive a train at the full range of expected speeds with no form of gear reduction.

    That's another benefit of pulsed driving currents. Because you're not, in effect, heating up coils when you're out of drive-arc, overall power handling capability is higher. Combine this technology with placing of an electromagnetic wound rotor in place of the normal permanent magnetic rotor, such as the design being commercised by Raser Technologies, mentioned earlier in this blog, and some really quite astounding power densities become possible.

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  33. P.S.The conception of an energy is discreate one to the same as a imbecility. No one has seen the energy and no one has seen the imbecility. We are able to observe results of the energy and imbecility. At present we have got to few energy because we have got to much imbecility. Thank you for your time and interest

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  34. I guess the crack must be good in Poland.

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  35. I looked at this: video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5692003346670523637&q=perendev&hl=enThen I hit "pause" and fired up the calculator. Power in: 6.71 watts. Power out: 1.96 watts. End of story. I have always been intrigued by permanent magnets. Day after day, year after year, defying gravity, stuck to the fridge with no glue. Sombody explained the magnetic field consists of "photons" but what keeps them moving? A definition from "The Universe in a Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking: "Magnetic field: The field responsible for magnetic forces." Gee, that explains a lot ... Doesn't a "force" require an energy source? In a thousand years they'll be amused at how primitive we were.

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  36. I personally love this particular gem (from this very blog!):

    "We are able to observe results of the energy and imbecility."

    We can do that anyway. Its called watching someone fly a kite into an electricity pylon. We can instantly observe the results of the energy transfer and comment subsequently on the kite flyer's imbecility.

    "That bloke's a nobber!" etc etc.

    Perhaps if we get lots of people with kites, and get them all to fly into electricity pylons we might get closer - with the odd electric jolt being sufficient to restart the hearts of those taking part, so giving them opportunity to start over.

    I should point out I'm no scientist however, and am happy to be disproved through careful experimentation.

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  37. "Gee, that explains a lot ... Doesn't a "force" require an energy source? In a thousand years they'll be amused at how primitive we were."

    On the contrary, just as we comment on scholars of 1,000 years ago, historians of the future will hold a similar view. They'll be impressed at how advanced science was in this day and age versus the refusal of the wider population to come to grips the subject through education and comprehension. What they'll be amused by wont be Stephen Hawking, who I assure you understands magnetic forces to a pretty good degree, but will actually be amused by people like you. Who failed to understand a simple quotation because they can't be bothered to research the full subject and subsequently claim that we're all so primitive because they can't understand it.

    On your issue, ask yourself this: what 'energy source' is it exactly which is pushing you and everything else 'down' on this planet and if that is the case, what energy source is pushing is all back up so the Earth and all of us doesn't collapse into itself? There are many forces involved in the universe from the very large to the impossibly minute, all of which are covered pretty well in any remedial physics classes.

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  38. Something new METOZ machine about: www.nets.pl/~metozor/prolog_for_metoz.html

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  39. IT is realy PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE. It is a new kind of of clean energy!!!Clean the air? It is possible. Clean water? It is possible too.Clean energy? It is possible as well.My idea is very difficult for understanding. It is not difficult for engineer - mechanic, who knows very good the Pascal's law and even-arm lever.Please open GOOgle and find metozor and next :index of metozor.Overthere is all about idea of main . example : www.nets.pl/~metozor/for_greenpeace.html or www.nets.pl/~metozor/energy_for_everybody.h... www.nets.pl/~metozor/prolog_for_metoz.htmlThank you for your time and interest. Email this article to friends.

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  40. Jesus, piss off you fucking loon. If it actually fucking worked you wouldn't need to go pimping it around on blog sites for Christ's sake. I'm an engineer. I understand Pascal's law and I say you are a lunatic with a poor grasp of science so please, enough already!

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  41. His name is Orlow Skizy Munt, a name created by throwing magnetic letters at a fridge and seeing what stuck.

    For this alone we should all build an even arm lever!

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  42. Yeah well a little more research I think throws this up as a netgeek windup. It obviously should piss people off because it is absurd but here the original perpetual Pole was posting with remarkably good english originally; latticeqcd.blogspot.com/2006/10/perpetual-motion-on-speed.htmlI suspect as his windup has continued he probably saw Borat and decided that he'd missed the trick of being someone whose poor english could have added to the joke.So let us compare the author of the - for want of a better phrase - the 'imbecility paragraphs' who said "The conception of an energy is discreate one to the same as a imbecility. No one has seen the energy and no one has seen the imbecility. We are able to observe results of the energy and imbecility. At present we have got to few energy because we have got to much imbecility." on this here site (by the way a cut and paste from the above link) with an EARLIER ENTRY by the SAME person on that link "The middle figure presents the machine and the side figures the position of the left and right cylinder and the mathematical description of these situations. In the past I have made two models, which confirmed the legitimacy of my theoretical assumptions concerning the METOZ machine. I have got photographs. I am looking for a person who would be interested in my invention. I can offer ample information. I look forward to hearing from you.". The first is pigeon english that makes no sense. The second is clear english. Smell a rat yet? Smell a 'oh lord I reckon I could be more 'amusing' if I start putting on really shit english ala the imbecility paras? Is it that good? Well it got a wikipedia entry and stuff but he's a one trick pony that doesn't really have a decent spark of humour - it's really just playing on whether people should automatically know the difference between a net-loon and people who are pretending to be a net-loon. That's not clever satire which plays on the reluctance of people to challenge loons or offensive people (who any right thinking person would have challenged) but who don't because they themselves are guilty of the same stupidity or offensive attitude that the satirist / wind-up merchant is propounding. So Borat says anti-Jewish things to get anti-Jewish people to show themselves up. Other satirists say increadibly banal stupid stuff to get people to embarrass themselves by saying 'oh yeah I totally support the banal illogical idea'. This is the basis of what the Borat, Ali G and every other satirist put-up character does. So maybe our borderline Asperger's here thinks he is being rather clever but he's missing the point. You could ridicule people who believe you. But there's no satire in banging on like some 3rd rate on people who don't.So in summary yeah whatever. Go and study comedy but don't hold out too much for yourself. This is not that clever a wind up and it's certainly bollocks satire.

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  43. Pepetual motion can , I belive! Can be achived with water, air, and apparatise. displacement of water with air equals wieght

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  44. Lurks,

    If your interested in the infinite torque to high speed angle, just look up amplidyne motors. Add the pulsing, and you've essentially got what you're talking about with a slightly different form factor.

    In all of these scams, there is some failure or interfering factor. The Orbos demo in London supposedly failed because of the heat of the lamps in the display case, and that was on July 5th...and they've not resolved the problem since then...right. Then, the Japanese over unity motors are being suppressed by the yakuza or is that yukuza. And just where would people who spend their time whacking off parts of their fingers and marking themselves with whole body tattoo sets get the idea to suppress over unity motors. Their mothers would probably be happy if they could spell over unity in Japanese...in between terms in jail. If they're keeping it for themselves, I've yet to see yakuza flying around with all their free power or using it to take over the transportation of the world...but maybe I'm missing something. Let us go back to Orbos for a moment. They have yet to provide us with the list of well regarded scientists who have tested their devices and found them to be "valid", and I really don't think you could keep such findings dead silent in a world where the cost of oil and gas have skyrocketed. Every time that I am tempted to believe one of these things, I step back and think of what I would do with it if I really had it. Then, I look around to see if anything like that is happening. I'm still waiting, but I'm not holding my breath.


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  45. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations - then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation -well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.Sir Arthur Eddington. The Nature Of The Physical World, 1928.

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  46. If you guys attually did any research on the perpetual motion you would see that really every universe is in it. That is unless that the gravitational forces are so great that they cause a very efficient pull that has an unnoticable change through out the universe.

    I know what your all going to say after reading this " Your an uneducated person that needs to research more about astonomy. " , but i have i know that all stars have an end to their life, eventually causing an explosion which creates many of the elements.. Who are we to say though that these are not what causes the perpetual motion.. I mean they give off so much energy it causes them to restart the movement. After the movmet has been caused the old star then starts the developement of a dwarf star. Which according to my theory is what brings back the energy of the explosion to create another. This constent renewl of stars lets our universe and others to funtion for ever.

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  47. I know what your all going to say after reading this " Your an uneducated person that needs to research more about astonomy. "

    Oh come now, I hardly think that's likely. No one here would ever mistake you for an educated person! Well, unless you count "primary school education", though even that much is questionable. And though your need for some astronomy research is unquestionably great, I would recommend kicking off your enlightenment with basic grammar and spelling.

    Meanwhile, to whet your appetite for you will learn when you start your GCSEs, why not read about The Heat Death Of The Universe?

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  48. Dave is on the personal offensive again. Stop him before he does any more damage! I had actually assumed that the poster wasn't english which makes the spelling and grammar more explicable. However it is no excuse for the bonkerosity of the content.

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  49. Oddly enough, what gives Brer Lunatic away as being a native English speaker is the constant misuse of "your" in place of "you're". In my experience, foreigners who learn English as a second language never make this mistake, and find it vaguely confusing that we do so with such tedious regularity.

    I could be wrong though. Polish people tend to like perpetual motion, so he could be one of them.

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  50. Hmm 80% impovement... Percentages are difficult things and sometimes open to "interpretation". If something is already 80% efficient then the losses are 20%. OK so far? If that were petrol that would be 20 gallons in every 100. So if I reduce the amount of waste to only 4 gallons in every 100 I have made an 80% improvement. over WHAT I HAD BEFORE.

    Or to talk economics if the interesst rate goes from 2% to 4% is that a 2% increase or a 100% increase? Certainly the increase in my mortgage repayments is of the order of double.

    Their claims re the motor are still bunk though.

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